The following is a transcription of a darśana with Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja in Moscow, Russia, on July 30, 2000 (Bhakta Bandhav Anthology Volume 60)

 

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: If one’s guru is not qualified, then, taking his permission, the disciple should at once take initiation from a higher rank of guru. This is not an offence. If that guru does not give permission, the disciple should give up that guru at once and take proper initiation. This is because that guru is not a Vaiṣṇava. If the guru is like a karmī, not duly chanting and remembering, he should be given up. Are there more questions?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda appointed Harikeśa. So, when did he fall down? At what time did he fall down?

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: Prabhupāda made him a representative – not a guru. You should know that if someone is not qualified, if he has no qualities of a guru, in some cases one acts as a representative for the time being. And he was like that. A real guru cannot fall down. Never, never, and never. So he was like a representative. Prabhupāda wanted to correct him, but he could not. So now this person has given up everything. Now he is a vaiṣṇava–aparādhī and a guru-aparādhī (an offender to his gurudeva). He has given up all chanting, remembering, and other devotional activities, and therefore he should be rejected. The reason is this: If the disciple is now, even today, remembering him and thinking, “He is my gurudeva,” then that so-called guru’s bad activities and qualities will come in him – all of them. You can remember the śloka:

nikuñja-yūno rati-keli-siddhyai
yā yālibhir yuktir apekṣaṇīyā
tatrāti-dākṣyād ati-vallabhasya
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam

Śrī Gurvāṣṭakam (6)

[“The spiritual master is very dear, because he is expert in assisting the gopīs, who at different times make different tasteful arrangements for the perfection of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa’s conjugal loving affairs within the groves of Vṛndāvana. I offer my most humble obeisances unto the lotus feet of such a spiritual master.”]

A sad-guru is like this. Do you know the meaning of this śloka? What is the meaning of ‘nikuñja-yūno?’ Do you know?

When you meditate on that guru, however, you will meditate that he has left the mission, that now he is mad, that now he is engaging in sense gratification; and these bad qualities will come instead of ‘sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ (Śrī Gurvāṣṭakam 7).’ Also ‘yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto ’pi (Śrī Gurvāṣṭakam 8).’ How can we meditate on him? If you are now meditating on a fallen guru, all his bad qualities – every sense gratificatory activity that he is doing – will come to you.

On the other hand, when you meditate on your Prabhupāda (Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Svāmī Mahārāja), you can meditate on how beautiful and merciful he is. He is attracting the whole world with his qualities. He always serves Kṛṣṇa in the nikuñja (the secluded pastime groves of Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa), and he is sākṣād-dharitvena (he has qualities like Kṛṣṇa; qualities of eternity, bliss, and knowledge). All these ślokas apply to him. If I meditate on him, then all his good qualities will come. This is the hidden meaning. You cannot apply this to any fallen person, or to a person who has not realised all these things.

Devotee: Gurudeva, he says that he wants to take harināma initiation from you. But he says he cannot shave his hair because he works at the gurukula and has to go into offices to ask for donations.

 Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: But he will have to shave his heart. I want to shave his heart. I have a very sharp blade.*

Devotee: He says that he was initiated in the eighties – many years ago, but by mail. The guru sent a letter and said, “You are initiated.”

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: By whom?

Devotee: Harikeśa Mahārāja.

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: He should be rejected.

Devotee: Yes. But he says that his enthusiasm for preaching in devotional service has declined greatly. So he is asking you if his enthusiasm will rise again after receiving initiation from you?

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: If he is following all instructions, he will be very, very inspired, and then, realising something, he can preach. Those without realisation cannot preach. One can preach after realisation and service to Kṛṣṇa with some taste; otherwise he cannot.

Devotee: Some people say that when a disciple gets initiation from gurudeva, then it is not his beads that become purified and sanctified, but the process of chanting. If that is true, what is the meaning of the ceremony when the guru gives beads and chants on them?

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: Who has made this ceremony? Who has begun it? From where is it coming? Do you know? If it is coming from Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, we should accept that process without any doubt. If it is not coming from Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Śrīla Prabhupāda Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, you should reject it. We should try to accept all the processes they have introduced. If you have any doubt, ask your gurudeva, and he will remove it. If your gurudeva cannot remove your doubts, then please do praṇāma to him and try to accept another guru. He should be able to remove all doubts; then he is a guru. In another case, we can accept any high rank of śikṣā-guru. He will remove all doubts and give that clear vision of bhakti. Has he taken initiation?

Urukrama dāsa: Not yet. But he is a very old devotee; one of the original devotees.

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: What is the essence of his question?

Devotee: Eight years ago he was in Vṛndāvana, and he developed a taste for hari-kathā and kṛṣṇa-līlā. Then he went back to Russia. He was preaching these things, but some of the GBC leaders didn’t like it. They started suppressing him, giving him much trouble, and he lost this taste. Now he is wondering if he can get this taste back. Is it possible or not?

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: You have done some good activities for bhakti, and therefore you now want to develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you can attain a real process from any real guru, śikṣā-guru or dīkṣā-guru, it will very soon come again – more than what you had previously. At that time you were not qualified to preach what you were preaching, because you had no realisation. But now, with realisation, with so much inspiration, you can preach. Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Svāmī Mahārāja preached everywhere. How? He practised, and he totally followed Prabhupāda Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. He realised these things, and then he began to preach. All were bound to hear; otherwise, it would have had no effect. So we should first realise, and then preach the teachings of our guru-paramparā.

Urukrama dāsa: I want to ask a question on behalf of some of the senior devotees. Today I spoke with many of them, and they shared their thoughts with me. Some express that they have one fear about meeting you and hearing from you. They feel so much inspiration and confidence that you are the real guru, and they want to accept your shelter and initiation.

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja (in pure Vaiṣṇava humility): I want to tell you all that I am not a real guru. Rather, I am a madhyama-adhikārī, and I will help as much as I can.** But I will guarantee that I will not fall down. I am not a guru like Nārada who can say, “O, kṛṣṇa-bhakti should come”, and at once it will come.*** I am not like him. I don’t want to cheat anyone. I am a bhakti-sādhaka. I am practising, and what I am realising I will help you with my full faith and full energy. I like to practice bhakti-yoga so much, but I cannot guarantee that I will surely take you to Kṛṣṇa. I will not give a guarantee. However, if you follow my instructions, then I am bound to take you. It depends on the disciples to follow and practice bhakti-yoga in the process I am explaining. There is one other thing I want to also clarify for you. A sad-guru never thinks of his disciples as his property. You are not my property. If you take initiation from me, you do not become my property; you are the property of Kṛṣṇa. My aim is to clear (the land of your heart), to nourish the seed, and to ultimately offer you to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. A bona fide guru never thinks that the disciples are his property. He thinks they are the property of Kṛṣṇa.

Also, you should know that I don’t want any position. I don’t want you to give me wealth, money, or anything. You cannot please me with material things like wealth, reputation, or anything else. I do not want golden ornaments and diamonds; I know they cannot bring happiness. I only want to help you, as Prabhupāda requested. That I can do.

Urukrama dāsa: They have this fear because previously, when they had another guru, they felt distance. He never came, and they did not feel closeness. They are afraid that if they accept your shelter and initiation…

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: I am not requesting them to take my shelter. I can never ask this of you. If you want, and if you have faith in me – only then. I am not requesting anyone. I have not come to make any disciples. I know that the acceptance of disciples is a very heavy burden. So if you want me to help you, then you can accept me. Otherwise, I don’t need any disciples or anything. I never think that you are my disciples. I think you are like my friends, and I am helping you to go to Kṛṣṇa and serve Him. I never think of myself as an ācārya.

Urukrama dāsa: But would they be able to feel very close and near and dear to you?

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: It depends on them, not on me. They should think that their guru is powerful enough to always come into their hearts – directly and indirectly and can save his disciples. Then that disciple is a disciple; otherwise, not. The guru is so powerful, and he can come into their hearts. He can somehow, directly and indirectly, come and help them if they have so much faith in him; otherwise, not. It is now time for class. Any other questions?

Devotee: I have one girirāja-śilā, and I want to ask you for blessings to worship this girirāja-śilā.

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: First be qualified and then worship. Without dīkṣā you cannot serve. And if you are serving without dīkṣā, you are bound to commit so many offences. The sad-guru never allows any unqualified person to worship, because that person may treat the deity as a statue, not as Kṛṣṇa Himself.

Urukrama dāsa: Another devotee gave this to him. That is why he has it.

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: If any person gives him poison, should he take it? Be very careful. Now it is time for class. Tomorrow you can come. If you have any doubts, you can tell me, and I will remove them.

(Break in audio)

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: I can help you. You can chant ‘Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare,’ and thus you will be very bold. Kṛṣṇa will arrange that all bad habits will go away. Then I will gіve you thіs and other mantras.

If there is a very tasteful sweet but some poison is there in that, will you knowingly eat it or not?

Devotee: No.

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: Why? If this poison is there in fish, then will you eat fish? Then how will you maintain yourself? Will you die if you don’t eat fish? So gradually you should know that fish, eggs, smoking (all kinds of sense gratification) are very dangerous, powerful poisons. You know that fish is also meat. What is the meaning of meat? M-e-a-t, meat. Me-eat — meaning those whom I eat will eat me. You will be a fish, and the fish will be a man or anything, and they will eat you. If there is a will, there is a way. Certainly there will be a way. Pray to Kṛṣṇa. Always chant “Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa” and pray, “Please be merciful to me.” Then Kṛṣṇa will make a way.

Devotee: What requirements do you set for candidates for harināma and for dīkṣā? What do you expect from them? What are the criteria for which they are qualified?

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: If anyone has given up meat, eggs, tobacco, and all kinds of bad things and he can chant, then he is qualified to take harināma and also to take dīkṣā (second initiation). Some have this idea…almost all have this idea that harināma is easy and secondary and dīkṣā is prominent. But this is wrong. “Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa” is the embodiment of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. They are not different. Taste in chanting the holy name and a relation to Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa will come by these dīkṣā-mantras. These dīkṣā-mantras are given to increase the faith, to increase the relatіon so that a taste may come іn chantіng harināma.

Thus the main thing is “Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa,” this harināma, and dīkṣā is secondary. Sacred thread, or fire sacrifice, or the mantras, oh, they are secondary. But now they will clear our hearts. A relatіon wіll come wіth Kṛṣṇa, and then more taste will come in harināma, so this is also very necessary. But you should always know that harināma is prominent.

Where is your wife? Are you legally married? Suppose she is sick, and the doctor wants thousands and thousands of roubles for her treatment. If you can do so and have some wealth, will you spend it on her treatment? And if you have no roubles, would you even sell your property for her? Why?

Devotee: Because of love.

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: Not because of love, but because you have a relation with her. If you love a girl, would you give thousands and thousands of roubles for her? You would not. But for your wife, you would give this because you are legally married. She would also give her life for you. She would give what she has. This is due to the relation. Now, again, come to this point: Kṛṣṇa is a person. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is very powerful. He is so merciful. If you are in distress, if there are problems, but there is no relation with Kṛṣṇa, then He will not come. He will not come.

But if we have any connection with Kṛṣṇa, any relation like the relation between husband and wife, like between son and father, like friends, like beloveds, if this relation is there, then Kṛṣṇa is bound to save you. Then there will be no need to say, “O Kṛṣṇa, come and save me.” Kṛṣṇa will automatically come because you know, “He is my son, He is my beloved, He is my husband. He is my everything.”

By dīkṣā, gurudeva establishes this relation between Kṛṣṇa and the devotee: “You are Kṛṣṇa’s and Kṛṣṇa is yours.” Gurudeva, like a priest, puts your hands in the hands of Kṛṣṇa and says, “Now Kṛṣṇa is yours, your beloved, your most beloved,” and Kṛṣṇa accepts. Then, if this relation is thick, you will not have to call to Him like this: “Save me, save me.” Like with Draupadī, He will come at once. By dīkṣā, gurudeva establishes this relation between Kṛṣṇa and the disciples. So dīkṣā іs necessary.

Do you know Haridāsa Ṭhākura? He was beaten in twenty-two markets, and Kṛṣṇa came, and all the beatіngs were comіng on Kṛṣṇa, not on Haridāsa. Haridāsa felt no pain at all, and he was chanting, “Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.” So if you are only chanting the holy name without relation, “Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa,” then He may hear your call, or He may not hear. He may only give you some wealth, reputation, and all these things. But if you have a thick relation with Kṛṣṇa, “Kṛṣṇa is my beloved. I am Kṛṣṇa’s. He is my son, He is my friend,” then Kṛṣṇa is bound to hear you. Like a baby has nothing to do. He will only weep, and his mother will come and save him always and take care of him. So Kṛṣṇa will take care of you if thіs dīkṣā іs there.

Dīkṣā means divya-jñāna. What is divya-jñāna? A relation with Kṛṣṇa. Also, all kinds of bad things will gradually go away. Unwanted things (anarthas), aparādhas (offences), all will go away by this dīkṣā. Gurudeva never dies. There is no death of gurudeva. He is eternal and transcendental. You will see that gurudeva has passed away, but like air, like Kṛṣṇa, he will always be saving his disciples. Śrīla A.C. Bhaktivedānta Svāmī has not dіed. Anyone can call hіm and he wіll come.

Gurudeva never dies. If you remember gurudeva, he will come and save you. He will sprinkle his mercy on you and inspire you if he is a sad-guru. If he is a bogus guru, then he cannot do so. But if a sad-guru is there, he will be very powerful, and he can save you.

A military commander in India came to me. He came to me and was listening to me for three, four, or five months. Then he came and begged me, requested me, “You should give me initiation.” His hair was not so long, very simple, but his moustache and beard were so long. I could have easily stood on his beard. He was also so big and so powerful. He was much taller than I was and very fat (very healthy). He told me, “For several years I have kept this beard, and this is more valuable to me than my life. I cannot give it up.”

I told him, “Then when you die, can you take care of this beard? What will be there when you die? It will be burnt to ashes, will it not? Now I have one suggestion. Bring a scale for weighing two things and keep your moustache and beard on one sіde and Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān on the other sіde. Then you should choose which one is superior.”

Then he told me, “Just now I am going to give up my beard because Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is more superior to my beard,” and he at once went there and shaved and came to me, and I gave him dīkṣā. Thank you. Now we should go to class and discuss all these things.

*

tato duḥsaṅgam utsṛjya
satsu sajjeta buddhimān
santa evāsya chindanti
mano-vyāsaṅgam uktibhiḥ

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.26.26)

[“An intelligent person should therefore reject all bad association and instead take up the association of saintly devotees, whose words cut off the excessive attachment of one’s mind.”]

** If the uttama-adhikārī gives initiation and makes disciples, it is understood that he is playing the role of a madhyama-adhikārī and sees everyone from the madhyama perspective.

***

The following is an excerpt from an Airport darśana with Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja in Los Angeles, California, on May 18, 2007, published in Walking with a Saint – Morning Walks and Conversations 2007

Śrī Vṛndā dāsī: I have a question, Gurudeva. When you are giving class, as you sit on the vyāsāsana looking at all of us, sometimes you look stern, and sometimes you are smiling. What are you doing with us through your eyes?

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: By my eyes I am giving you kṛṣṇa-bhakti. A guru does this in order to impregnate your heart with bhakti.

Śrī Vṛndā dāsī: Sometimes when you are looking at us, it’s like, “Whoa!” Sometimes I don’t know where to look. Should I keep looking at you even though (making a gasping sound as if overwhelmed)? Keep looking? Where else to look, right?

Śrīla Bhaktivedānta Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: That is why a living dīkṣā-guru, or śikṣā-guru, is needed. Without a guru, one cannot advance. Some gurus put their hand on the disciples’ head and say, “May you go to Goloka Vṛndāvana.” Nārada, for example, can do this. A madhyama-adhikārī cannot do this. He can inspire by his hari-kathā. Regarding a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he will take that devotee to a sad-guru (self-realised guru).

Source(s): Purebhakti.com, Serve Love – Bhakta Bandhav (Bhakta Bandhav Anthology transcribed and edited by the Bhakta Bandhav Team)

Image(s) made possible by Pixabay.com, Krishnapath.org.in, Keystone Press / Alamy Stock Photo and / or Bhaktiart.net

Unless indicated otherwise, all verse translations and quotes are from the books by Śrīla Prabhupāda (Vedabase.com)